The OKR Podcast
The OKR Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

The Magic of Momentum

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

3M Automotive & Aerospace Division president Steve Shafer shares his observations on the potency of momentum to accelerate transformation and outcomes. It's hard to define, obvious when you see and when you don't have it -- but it's what winning teams have in common. Hear how Steve uses OKRs and a growth mindset to amplify his organization's best possible outcomes.  

...mm. Mhm. Mhm. You're listening to the okay our podcast, we talk about the power of lateral alignment and outcome mindset and empowering teams to do their best work from anywhere. We also talk about operating as a digital company which is crucial now here journeys learnings and victories from our guest speakers and get expertise from our host to scale your leadership capacity and operate with high impact trust and efficiency. Today my guest is steve shaper steve is three M's President responsible for the automotive and aerospace solutions division, which of course leverages three um technology to help solve the world's transportation and mobility challenges over his career. At three young, he's been chief strategy officer and president of three M greater china area where he was responsible for leadership and management of the company's largest overseas market And before moving to China he was senior vice president of business transformation at three am before three am steve worked at Mckinsey and company and ford motor company deploying lean operations and revenue enhancement strategies and this won't surprise you. He even had a stint as an engineer at Nasa earlier in his career. I'm so excited you're with us today steve you and I've had the pleasure of talking about leadership topics several times and I find your perspective, expansive, insightful, refreshing and it always elevates my thinking. So I'm so excited that you're joining the podcast and we get to bring that to other people, other leaders as well. Well thank you did you. It's great to be here. I've also enjoyed our conversations around leadership and looking forward to continuing the dialogue here. The rest of your podcast listeners awesome. Let's jump in on topic near and dear to both of us momentum and for organizations and transformation in particular, which is many of the leaders who are now adopting and adapting okay ours to their world. For organizations and transformation momentum may not be all that easy to come by, but ends up being a potent force. Tell us a little bit about how you think about it. Yeah, I've kind of been fascinated by the idea of momentum and you mentioned a few buzzwords that are out there in our business vernacular today. Change transformation agility, resilience. These are things that are really fundamental to leading a large organization or running a business in today's world. I don't find there's a lot out there talking about momentum and I think part of that it's maybe hard to define, its hard to measure. I think for a lot of people, you know, you know when you see it, but what is it? And I think my fascinations come about in my own personal experience of running a number of different businesses. I've seen organizations at different parts of what I'll call this momentum group, right? Some are kind of in a valley, right? Kind of stuck in an air kind of a place where they're having a hard time getting going. I've seen businesses where they're sort of starting to climb their way out. I've seen businesses that are really flying high and in some cases struggling to hang on and you know, in all those things about change and transformation, there's a lot behind mindset and behaviors that make those work. And I look at momentum is it's a key contributor to mindsets and behaviours and I've always been fascinated by how momentum seems to give confidence to people, make bolder decisions, right, make more decisive decisions and yeah, you can have a great strategy, you can have all the right people that you need those mindsets and behaviours and sometimes just having confidence and maybe I use that term momentum As one big contributor to how you have confidence to make the right decisions and how to leave. Super interesting. So mindset is a big part of that, right? You observe that our mindset is either...

...the cap or the enabler of what we might accomplish together and and sometimes our own mind set limits are potential momentum. Talk us talk to us a little bit about what you see happen and how, how we can get in our own way. Yeah, I kind of started by saying momentum sort of hard to define and hard to measure. Um and you know, unlike maybe what you see on tv, where you know, you see that like great coach give that halftime speech, right? That just changes the trajectory and it's been fasting. I'm a big sports fan and I can see momentum in sports games, right? And and oftentimes that big play or maybe it's that big pep talk in the locker room at halftime that can help turn the tide. It doesn't feel like that's often the case may be in business or in real life, rarely the way I see it is. It's some big culminating event that just changes the trajectory of how things are going. I think a lot more often it's just the small things every day and all the way down to the language you choose to use in the comments you make or the questions you ask to your team. Um, and it sets the tone for, are we winning or not? Are we making mistakes or are we learning? And I think about that as a leader around, how do I make sure I'm choosing the right language? I look to coach, my direct reports, my team around, how do we talk to each other and what does the rest of the organization see? And I think really importantly, it's one thing you can do as a leader, but getting that kind of attitude right? That getting that momentum, it's not just from the top, it's got to be your organization, believing it. And so how do you get leaders throughout your organization? It really helped to also choose their language carefully how to actually set the right tone because I might be able to have a town hall communication, give the really big rob rob pep talk about how we're winning. But if then people go back to their deaths or go back to these days, back to their home office and not feel it right with the communications that they're having with their workgroup or with their supervisor. It doesn't work. And so it's a lot of little things that have to build up whether that's you're trying to get momentum going or whether you're trying to hang on and make sure it doesn't fall off. It's a lot of those little things that I really focus on to try to get that attitude in place. One of the things you said, that really struck me last time we talked tonight, I brought it back into my day to day. Do we say that? How do we frame that? How do I do that? And you use this? You framed it as the things we tell ourselves, we're not good at, the things we say we can't do and the saying of those somehow starts to make them true. So we're not good at this versus we're not good at this yet. One of those has a lot of possibility and and the other has a lot of finality in it. Yeah, I'm a big believer in growth mindset thinking, which probably a lot of people have some level of familiarity with. I think I was that way, you know, I go back to, I've always thought to have been an optimist in how I think about life and how I, how I look to kind of set my own leadership profile, I'm intellectually curious. I think you can always learn and grow and that's why growth mindset, even before growth mindset existed. It's just when I finally came across it, it just resonated. And one of the things I've helped me do is really pick up more of those language elements you can put into your comments and questions and your daily vernacular to really shift things because you can always, what anybody that's running a business is going to have problems. You're going to run into big challenges. And the question is, you can sit there and you can have conversations about how the hell did we get here? How did...

...we screw this up? Why didn't we see this coming? And very quickly those types of conversations start to just bring energy out of an organization. So how do you think about it in terms of, you know, hey, we're not good at this yet. Like we talked about, right, hey, we're gonna be better next time we're going to learn from this. We're doing something here that's very hard and you know, we're getting the experience, we need to have the capability, we're going to need to have to be successful in the future and look, it doesn't, it doesn't erase the very tough conversations that have happened. It doesn't make all these things go away, but I think it, it helps set the tone that says, hey, even though we're hitting on some hard times right now, this doesn't mean we can't be successful or even in some cases that were not successful today, we're just learning and part of the process that one of the, the experiences were having it. And of course it's, we had a girl speed bump over here, right? And I'm seeing in my own organizing with other leaders as well. Is that when you start asking like, okay, what did we learn? You there's an opportunity to move closer to, okay, what was our hypothesis? What are the assumptions underneath that and what can we learn about the assumptions to bring your point? Intellectual curiosity into it? Actually the assumptions that underpinned what we were trying to accomplish those were where we need to make a bit of adjustment and you start getting, you start to use an intellectual horsepower to problem solve rather than get stuck in the problem itself or the kind of backward facing you have that problem. It's a great way to think about it. I also think about leaning forward, how do you then say I'm actually excited about the next time this will come up? We will be so much better prepared I think and think how great that will be. And yeah, you gotta maybe clean up some things related to you're, you're, you're challenging area you're learning. But then you get excited, right? This is like, and now we know enough to hopefully never do that again. And obviously new problems will introduce themselves and then you'll just keep working. I love that. It's way more fun, right? We think about, uh, we're gonna learn, we're going to get better, we're going to get smarter. Uh, and even the sort of growth mindset where it's a fundamental level, we think about what we might achieve and we really set the bar high on what we might achieve were in the neighborhood of just a little bit beyond what we know for sure we can do, right? Where if everything goes right, we'll get there. But as you and I both know, there's really no guarantee on no lock on. It goes right. But when you think about like imagine what great looks like and you think about limitless thinking and really aiming high and aiming forward, right? It's one of the things that I know we both like about okay ours. But when you think about that and you think about how do you bring that forward into, we're gonna have a learning organization, we're going to have limitless or we're gonna be open to the possibilities and what we might create together when you think about that and think about who cares, tell us a little bit about how you bring that into a particular environment, like three storied innovator in so many dimensions. But how do you bring that into the culture of the company and the work that you do in the automotive and aerospace business? We've taken the okay are thinking and we've applied it to our most important strategies. The vital few things we have to get right to be successful in our business longer term make us a sustainable, growing successful business. And by doing that, it's actually really helped us focus because we know not every day do you have the luxury of only focusing on the most important things? And in particular, this last, you know, these last couple years, there's been a lot...

...of urgent, there's been a lot of crisis management. There's been a lot of things we've had to deal with the automotive and aerospace markets that, that I leave for three and there's been a lot of supply chain disruptions, right? Those are things you've got to address, but at the same time you can't just take your eye off what's the most important thing we've got to get done and we're longer cycle businesses. Right. Those important things, take years of investment and focus in some level of consistency to actually build them out and you've got to do both and we deploy okay. Are thinking really at least initially trust in that longer term what's most important and actually it's really well with the think about what's possible, what's the whole potential, right? And, and we can organize, are thinking that way, have the dialogue that way and use the okay our sets to actually get us energized by it, right? That's our purpose, right? And we've got to deal with a lot of other um, kind of immediate near term things. We've got to deal with the current financial realities of our business. But okay ours are great for stretching or thinking and it ties back to focusing us on our strategies, having a continuous learning cycle where we can make our strategies execution double by setting quarterly targets. We need to go after and we build on them and we learn from them. And also I just think it's a great empowering force, right? Our teams get engaged. They talk about what we're doing and I think a more purposeful way and that helps all those things, help with this whole momentum. It's something to get energy behind. It's something that people can get excited about. It's something to orient people beyond maybe all the what went wrong this quarter, right? And make it more well, the things that are really important for us, did we make progress or did we learn? And what do we then reset and learn for forward on the next quarter. So we really focus on our most important things and I think the okay are thinking is great because it helps us focus, it helps us stay aspirational helps us learn and it helps empower and engage our teams embedding that learning element to it is super important. And a lot of times when people think about okay as they focus entirely on the setting and and then just parking them somewhere becomes really important. But I find that the juice of them is bringing us back to focus right over the course of a quarter, having something to recenter on and then the big juice comes from what we learn and just building that just regular pace of that inquiry, right? What do we learn about our values created, what we learn about how we can measure value, what we learn about our capacity, external internal changes, the building that learning cycle in can be cathartic and you don't realize that until you start doing it and doing it well and you realize maybe didn't we didn't have this learning habit in the past, right? Learning was lost and it maybe maybe not framed around the strategy itself or the value that we're trying to create. The learning was captured in the pains or the fails but not actually captured in the context of where we're heading. So sort of backward facing, not not forward looking and maybe not entirely strategic oftentimes and I think we have teams that are on different, a lot of different levels of the spectrum of where they are in the learning process themselves right around just how to use, okay are thinking the ones that have been doing it the longest and then I think it really kind of embrace it. You can see the difference, I think they're they're they're kind of reaching that place that you're talking about, right where they've kind of learn what's the value added piece of all this, They've learned how to embrace it. They learn how to, you know, you can use a collaboration to work or to to really...

...empower how they work together. And there's other teams that are like, you know, still on that journey, right? So, so it's a learning process, like almost everything when you're trying to do something kind of different and it's actually pretty fun to see teams move through that progression. And I think for us in my business, the ones who are further along are kind of set the tone and an aspiration for the rest of us about what the real potential of this could be. And that's, that's why we're excited about what we're doing because we haven't even reached our full potential yet in terms of how to, how to use, Okay, I think it's one of those situations where the path is the destination. So you mentioned long cycle business and in your case this quarter's financials are a function of something that happened last year and they're sort of written in stone, you're not moving that needle in quarter and a lot of people think that okay, ours can't work particularly a quarter cadence can't work in a long cycle business, but you find that they drive clarity precisely because this quarter's results were set a year back. Tell us a little more about that, I mean it works well. And three big public company. Right? Quarterly results matter. So I lead a business that I don't have the luxury of choosing. Do I want to be long term thinking or or deliver a near term results. Right. The reality is I've got to do both. There's plenty of people in my organization that need to do both. Some people have more of a job that's focused on the longer term strategies that we need to implement. Some of them may be more focused on the immediate quarter to quarter, but the reality is, you know, we have to manage both inside the company and you know, we use okay, are thinking, as I mentioned, primarily focused on what we're trying to do. It helps us stay focused on what we're trying to achieve. It helps us really stretch ourselves to think what's possible. I actually think it's almost better designed for that type of thinking and not that you can't apply it across all these things. But oftentimes it's challenging inside a big company to think about what's possible when it comes to say budget setting right, or quarterly results. Because there's a financial system, like many companies we take very seriously our P and L. And R. P. And L. Results. And in fact, that can sometimes be very fixed mindset thinking right, I have a budget, I have a growth target, I have an operating income target. Did I hit it or not? And if I didn't hit it, I failed. Right. And obviously that's being a little bit dramatic about how you think about it, but there's a little bit embedded in when you think about the near term that way it can actually kind of overwhelmed and even drag down momentum sometimes if things aren't going well. And so we really stretch ourselves on our now, it's got to all come together, right? We are in the business of running the business. So if I'm working on strategies that don't impact or come back to or deliver financial success, right there probably not the right strategies or I'm not being successful at them, but it does need to come together. But I actually think it helps in a world where you've got to do both. You've got to focus on your term execution and like you said in my business, a lot of what we're delivering in this quarter was set months ago, if not years ago. Much of the energy of my organization, you know, 80% of the team, 80% of their focus is making sure that a year from now our businesses in successful place and and that's where we really focus our okay are thinking one of the things I hear from leaders who run a business unit inside a large and often a large and mature organization that's got some complexity and diversity perhaps of those businesses is that there's an opportunity to help if you will have the plot stick together a little bit more and be a little bit more a little bit more strategic than simply the penal numbers. Right. It's, you...

...actually have a thread that goes beyond just what you can see in current quarter financials, uh, and it helps remind leaders both within your Oregon, maybe beyond right upward in a larger entity, remind them where you're going, not just where you've most recently been, which in some cases when you don't have a lot of momentum is a high pain point for some leaders. Wait, wait, we're going over there. Not just that we've been whatever current quarter outcomes happen to be, Let's shift to global and to the many cultures in your organic and uh, and the sort of, I'll call it the different markets and cultures and there are different relationships to thinking about our best possible or thinking boldly about what's possible. There's different hesitations on do we lean way over our skis or do we ski as safely as possible? I had a wonderful conversation with somebody in your, your team at a no care event. Um, hero. And he, uh, he said something that made me so personally happy, which was that he, uh, that he thought that okay, I was having a common language for shaping intent and the declaration of what's best possible and having that being a platform where he can see it in his own time and digested in his own time. But with the common structure that made it easier for him to absorb and easier for him to connect to those intentions and just like a human level, it was it was wonderful and a really nice example of bridging, right? So he's in a completely different country, not to mention time zones and very different culture than the team with which he partners with. Perhaps most often there's a lot of cultural dimension in in your world. Tell us a little bit about your observations on how cultures and micro cultures affect people's perception of momentum, their appetite to lean into that. And then how do you lead through forward around with in the context of that, of the dimensionality? It's a great point. I feel fortunate in my career that I've had the chance to work all around the world. I've worked with people all around the world, I've lived abroad and being able to work and immerse myself in other cultures and I have an appreciation for how much a local culture can influence a culture within a company, how business gets done, mindsets behaviours and You know, I think three M is a company that's got its own very strong culture and I think what we've learned, we're very global company, we've learned that that culture actually helps us work around the world. The company culture helps us navigate around the world because there's some things that we just expect and development and make sure that we have in common near three. Right? And so that helps us navigate through that. But I also think this idea of you know what we've been talking about around momentum we talked about in terms of okay are thinking, I think it's universally translatable and I think it can look different and feel different a little bit in different cultures if I just took the momentum concept for a second, I've seen it firsthand. Some cultures really grasp onto the idea of bold change, moving fast. I spent a few years working in china, right, that's a culture that momentum can shift so quick for sure, right. And I think I think some of that is actually cultural, but I think the concept though is very to minister. I think people, people when they feel like things are going well, they build confidence in themselves, think they feel like they make more decisive decisions and how fast they do that how quickly and how...

...whole might look a little different. But I think that idea carries. I think okay are thinking right, thinking about what's possible in some cultures are going to be more conservative than others about how to think about some are maybe more a little bit more risk averse actually than others. But look, I think the idea can connect us together and I think it connects us together in ways that happened a little bit more of our human emotions rather than set management principles. And I think that actually works to your advantage when you're operating that way. And actually, I think ties cultures together so important for where we are in the world at the moment. And when you think about particularly in your industry, right, there's pretty epic transformation a foot, It's been a foot for a few years, but it's certainly accelerating and there's lots of forces at play that are, I think driving that acceleration, but culture and micro cultures can be real pacesetters inside the company. And and then there's lots of implications in how that pacesetting inside a company translates into the peace and maybe to some extent the winners and the losers in the market in which they operate as well. And you mentioned china companies in china the ability to mobilize really quickly, in part because they believe they can uh, in part because they have lots of evidence that they have Tesla and their fearlessness in swinging for the fences and you know, describing how far they're going to hit the ball before they even get up to the plate, which is not what lots of more mature companies do as a, as a habit and then they swing hard and maybe you don't get over the fence, but they get really close to the fence closer than anyone thought. And it's an attitude of more fearlessness that sets pace inside their company and both forces sort of a Tesla, heretical, high speed china, rapid mobilization. Those forces have big implications in your sector. Tell us a little bit about maybe what's at stake and what the complexities are when you think about the automotive industry and all that is in motion there. Yeah, I've really enjoyed working in environments and markets that are going through disruptive change. And you mentioned china on certainly the automotive world today is just going through so much change at such a quick pace for what the industry is experienced in the past. And there are these amazing companies out there that are doing incredible things and you know, many of them newer players, right? A lot of the companies in china are our new almost by definition from the way the market developed in china. And then you've got players like Tesla and mentioned that are really disrupting things, uh, in the automotive space and you're absolutely right. They go out there and they told proclamations and you know, working with these folks and sometimes it's amazing how the, these people really think they're gonna change the world and had the kind of our right and, and uh, you know, they don't always achieve kind of the aspirations, they set out their themselves, but they've had an enormous amount of impact in the markets that they compete and, you know, to the point where it ripples outside of the walls of just those companies themselves. If you just think about where we've come in, the automotive industry in electric vehicles, the concept wasn't only knew, but the time horizon, how people were thinking about it has been collapsed so dramatically. And clearly the capital markets are rushing in and liking this boldness. These ideas that that sort of has forced the hand for a lot of traditional companies to say, well, wait a minute, these guys are out there doing this crazy stuff. But isn't that crazy if that's where the market valuations for some of these companies are? And obviously that type of capital flow allows them to continue to do...

...things right? That that are bold and, and changing the world, they're slightly crazy depending on how you, how you do it. And I think it's a good example of that kind of momentum, right? You get that going and that courage of, we can do this and go out there and it's not that, you know, some of these companies don't have missteps right where they don't have, they do, they're just just like everyone else that goes into work every day and has some things go their way and something's not, but they don't let it deter them and slow them down and not think that they can still continue to make a ball decisions. I do think it gets more difficult, Right? So when you're new, when you're the new player, you in essence have less to lose, right? And? And it's for more established companies, you know three M. is a company that 120 years. We've been bold players to, we've innovated ourselves more times over Um in the last 100 20 years that most companies were not the same company today, that where we won't be the same company And 2100 years from now as we are today, I think the pace of change is accelerating and that's something that a lot of traditional established companies have to figure out how to jump. You have the capabilities you need to, what does it mean for your fixed assets that you have, what are you willing to risk and lose? Right? And so I think some of these companies, you know it's going to get more and more difficult because what they have to lose from their mistakes can sometimes start to work against your willingness to take those bets and you know the future will, will, will play out whether whether they work through and fight through that next phase. But I think that's that's one of the things that a lot of established companies, you know, operating in china, right, there's a lot of chinese companies that they can take those risks and If if they run into problems they can start a new right, starting with a new company, you know companies like three a.m. and some of the establish, oh young customers of mine in the automotive space, you don't have to watch it. Just sort of closing up shop and starting new, right? We have to think about the risks that we take in. That's always that tough balance with that bold thinking that risk taking that going for something really innovative and you know what are the consequences, right? What are the consequences that you don't get there? And established mature companies have to weigh those risk reward profiles all the time and what we're thinking about. But I think it's good. I think we're challenged by these new companies were challenged to think differently whether they're a competitor of ours or whether their customer of ours and that's great and I think it it challenges us to stretch ourselves. I actually think they learn a lot from us to they learn a lot about some of those potential risks and all those things that we've learned through experience or there's a reason why we think about these things differently and we make we make each other better as a result. I think it's a particularly interesting and maybe even tricky time, right? The compression of innovation cycles and the availability of capital, our forces like we haven't really had Before not to this degree. Right? So as much venture money has been invested in the first six months of 2021 as all of 2020 which was a high water mark and the number of I. P. O. S. Hasn't been this good since 1999. It's uh an epic amount of capital flowing into the disruptors, right? And it's flowing unbelievably fast and that's accelerating the technology change cycles. And I think just the rate and degree of change in each cycle puts a different level of, I'll say duress if you will into the decision of risk reward, boulder or safe or somewhere in the middle. And is there even any thing in the middle anymore? I think it's a different challenge as an example of Robin Hood, Six years old has the same market campus fidelity at 60. It's uh, that's that's disruptive and the amount...

...of capital we have posted to actually continue to invest fairly sure as you know, the top end of the budget at right? So in that sense they do have everything to lose right there thinking actually shifts to, we have nothing to lose. Their thinking shifts to, we've got to invest faster and faster because if we don't right, we lose our edge and we lose our startup, lose our edginess. And it's uh, I don't know whether we're at this inflection point but sometimes I wonder if the risk has shifted to your, your real risk as human use low. Yeah. And it's changed the risks risk profile across industries, right? So in my business right. If you think about some of the announcements and proclamations that the traditional audience have made about the level of investment they are making to move powertrain move from internal combustion to electric people. Now, some of that's driven by regulation, right? Some of it's driven by Tesla and market caps and boards have to wake up to that. But that, you know, it's not a safe play right? That those are bold moves that they've decided they can't afford to invest in both technologies and if you're going to pick one, you're going to pick the future, right? And And the acceleration of how they I mean, I think I prior to joining three am I was kind of grew up in the auto industry as a consultant industry, I worked for Ford, You know, electric vehicles, autonomous drive, these were 2050 type concepts, right? And now you see, Oh yes, announcing that they're going to be all electric by 2030 or 2035 and and I feel like it's still excited. So I mean it can start with the risk profile of maybe a new disruptor and how they think about it, but it puts pressure across the system to think about, we call it risk differently. But I think it's just also the natural evolution that when we talk about the pace of change is accelerating pace of innovation and everything is accelerating, it means you have to think about risk different and and maybe winners and losers are just going to shake out that much faster. I think it's inevitable that they will write, nobody has a permanent position on the global 1000 of the Fortune 500 right, but how it shakes out week no one knows, but yeah, the shift to bring it back to okay ours about the shift to a quarter iteration, to aiming for great, bold thinking to bring in your team's ambition forward and building learning in at a higher pace. I think those things are all super important to companies that are have a solid position in the market and want to innovate at an accelerated pace and pace that matches market right, maybe which might be faster than the pace that matched their last decade, but I think some of those, the management flywheel, the aspirational aspect of it, the learning cycle that can really help in shifting gears a little bit, yeah, in just the objective setting around where we trying to go, but then recognizing to how we get there right, is really an important part of that learning journey and I think for, for, you know, senior leaders more and more we have to get comfortable with actual er experience becomes less and less relevant in terms of actually knowing the answer to some of those things and also by the way that fits really well with what a lot of the younger generation of people coming in, the workforce are expecting, right, they're expecting to have maybe more of us say an influence over how does this take hold and and I think all that fits really well, right, it allows me to, to sort of help the teams and think through how do we have some...

...consistency of what we're trying to do because you don't want to constantly be changing course. You need to iterate on it as you learn. But then how do we get there? You've got to have an empowered team to really get it. That's what people want to be. They want to feel like they're involved, they want to have that sense of purpose of what they're doing. And and that's where also I think that's how we get there just has to be very quick iterative because you're going to learn a lot every, every day, every week, every recorders. Yeah, well that's perfect cap on the y and some of the, how let me ask for your parting advice for leaders driving transformation or who are in industries that have, uh I don't know which industry doesn't currently have super disruptive dynamics, but for those that are in those industries, how do you think about and what advice would you offer them really on how to build momentum, how might outcome thinking, growth mindset and and okay, our practice, how might that help them go forward? You know, I think I'd encourage everybody, make sure you find the space for yourself to invest the personal time and thinking through the influence you can have on people's mindset and morale and eventually momentum. You haven't thought about whether you've got momentum or not within your business. My sense is, you know, if you haven't thought about it, think about it and then how do you be very mindful about accelerating it, changing it, getting it going? How do you work with your teams around how to do that? How do you cascade that through your organization? I think it's a powerful, really powerful tool. I think okay are thinking is a great enabler for it and I'm still early in my own journey around thinking through that, but I would encourage folks, I'm assuming if they're listening to this podcast, give you their familiar right? But I think thinking about linking that, how do you think about IIi bokor is within your organization with the idea of building momentum, whether it's the kind of setting that car is setting the tone stretching people for what's possible, empowering people to get them engaged and energized about the purpose of what you're doing. I think, okay, I'm thinking just really well with that and I said I just have fun because I think a lot of, a lot of times we think about the stress on the organization of change and transformation and even the idea of resiliency, right, doesn't sound fun and I just think that part of what helps people get energized and still get excited about coming to work and still, you know, being willing to put everything into it and actually getting momentum is to feel like they're having a sense of purpose and I feel like they're having fun with what they're doing and, and the change isn't something that's scary about change can be a lot of right? And I mentioned I personally, um, in my own career have realized it. I like the destructive markets, right. I'm excited about the change that's going to happen in the automotive and aerospace markets in the coming decade and I want to be running this business and being a part of it because of that. And I try to get other folks just to think like that, just have fun with the type of change. And I think that also up speeding with perfect, okay, I'm going to close with a fun fact for you and thank you for it. Which is from our first conversation when you talked about momentum, lots of light bulbs went off for me and the that comment right? Where you can focus on the fun and started to magnify and multiply from positive momentum versus find the problems resist the change. Worry about it. Just the mindset shift was totally catalytic for me. So I took momentum and made it our second half 2021 theme we had about our whole...

...company together for four days in the one week where we were open from the pandemic and everybody has great work board wear that has momentum number 21 on it all. A gift from the brilliant insight you had that really elevated my awareness of just how powerful momentum can be to move people and teams and organizations forward. So thank you for that gift from all of the work board team. We all appreciate it and enjoy it and thank you so much for being our guest, sharing your wisdom with everyone who's curious about or building there. Okay. Our practice. We appreciate it very much. Okay, thanks for having me. You've been listening to the Okay, our podcast. Subscribe in your favorite player so you never miss a moment. Thanks for listening until next time. Mhm.

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